Can your workflow save you from burnout? In today’s episode, I have the honor of introducing you to systems strategist and Honeybook educator Sandra Yvonne. Sandra is sharing how we can slow down to speed up success in our business, plus how to protect ourselves from potential burnout. 

On Quianna Marie Weekly, we’re chatting about business growing pains, finding genuine connections, and celebrating wins of all sizes through the lens of a photographer at heart.

Sprinkled throughout stories and interviews with past clients, photographers and other business owners this podcast is designed to help you step into your purpose and to truly create a life you’re proud of, a life worth photographing and sharing.

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Today’s episode is brought to you by The Green House, my resource garden for photographers! Let me help you AMPLIFY your heart online and in real life to turn bridesmaids into future brides through templates, workshops, and freebies!

Review the Show Notes:

The Early Stages Of Burnout (2:49)

What To Prioritize To Handle Burnout (5:22) 

How Systems Add Value For Ourselves And Our Clients (9:01)

Adding Touchpoints In Your Client Experience (14:42)

A-Ha! Moments In Honeybook Automations (19:37)

The Time You Save By Setting Up Your CRM (25:58)

Using A CRM To Improve Your Business (29:47)

Experiencing A Systems VIP Day(34:27)

Setting Up Your Auto-Responder (38:17)

Adding Self-Care Into Our Work Routines (42:31)

Key Tip From Sandra (49:24)

Connect with Sandra:
Instagram: instagram.com/simplysandrayvonne
Website: simplysandrayvonne.ca
Keeping It Candid Podcast: simplysandrayvonne.ca/keepingitcandid

Mentioned In This Episode:
Honeybook
Episode 041: Creating Workflows and Systems to Amplify Your Weddings with Laura Murphy
Episode 107: Creating Boundaries For Abundance with Jessica Whitaker

Connect with Quianna:
Instagram
Facebook
TikTok
Pinterest

Review the transcript:

Quianna: Sometimes when I take a second to sit on the couch and rest, just as my body takes a sigh of relief, my brain kicks in and starts to speed up. I start thinking about unloading the dishwasher, sending referrals to a friend, what I’m wearing to my cousin’s wedding in Mexico this fall, working on my sales funnels, thinking about what Trader Joe’s cards I have in my stationery drawer that I could use as a birthday card to send to a friend next week.

The thought of taking a break and slowing down sounds like I’m pumping the brakes and wasting time. Why, why, why are we wired this way? Today, I have the honor of introducing you to Sandra Yvonne, my new friend that believes that taking time to slow down actually helps us speed up faster and increases our income and output.

But how can we even take a beat to relax when we have so much on our mind and on the brink of burnout? Luckily, as a boundaries queen and workflow expert, Sandra is helping us navigate systems, workflows and automations to not only help us get our time back, but to increase our value and to deliver an unforgettable experience for our clients.

Today, we’ll be chatting all about perfecting your inquiry process, polishing up your workflows with our favorite CRM honey book, as well as regulating our energy and protecting our calendar from future meltdowns and burnouts. As a neurodivergent entrepreneur that navigates the chronic illness life, Sandra shares so much grace for defining our own success.

And setting up automations to equally support our business as well as taking good care of our clients. In this conversation, we share lots of examples as photographers, but there’s tons of golden nuggets of wisdom sprinkled throughout this chat that can help polish the systems and workflows for any business.

You’re welcome here, babe. Always. Without further ado, please welcome Sandra was simply Sandra Yvonne. Welcome to Kiana Marie weekly, a podcast for creatives who love to celebrate wins big or small by dancing in the kitchen photographers who are excited to serve their clients. And friends who are ready to chase really, really big dreams.

You can find all of the resources mentioned in this episode at KeanuMarie. com slash podcast. Join me as I share weekly motivation, chat about growing pains, finding genuine connections and celebrating your wins through the lens of a photographer at heart. Come join me for a dance party. Ready? Let’s go.

Hey, hey, hey, welcome to the party, Sandra.

Sandra: I’m so excited. I’m so thankful you can join us today. Thank you so much for having me. I have been listening to your podcast for so long and I’m so excited to be on the other side of it instead of just being a listener.

Quianna: I am so grateful for you and that makes my heart so happy.

Let’s just dive into these questions. I mean, I have a million questions for you, Sanda. So I would love to know in your opinion, what are some signs that we’re in the early stages of burnout? What are those symptoms look like for us?

Sandra: Yeah, absolutely. I think when we think about burnout, we often think about like, we’re just tired.

We were physically, mentally burnt out, but there are a lot of little things that are kind of like tiny little red flags that we tend to ignore along the way. One of those is that you really start to lack motivation, things that you really used to get excited about in business, whether that be certain types of sessions or some people, I’m not one of these people, but some people get really excited about editing.

When you start to lose the motivation to do the parts of your job that usually bring you a lot of joy, that’s definitely a sign that you are heading towards burnout. Getting easily frustrated with problems that aren’t necessarily, you know, they’re tiny little speed bumps that you’ve turned into a mountain because you’re just overwhelmed with all the things.

Not sleeping well is another really big one that I think we easily chalk it up to a million other reasons as to why we’re not sleeping well, but it really, like, is a big piece of that burnout puzzle. And then lastly, just feeling like you don’t have time to take a break. I always tell people that the time that you need to take time off the most is when you feel like you don’t have the time to take time off.

So yeah, just like kind of prioritizing that rest and things like that. When all of that starts to go out the window, then definitely you are for sure heading towards burnout.

Quianna: I love that so much. And I am so grateful that you’re giving us so much grace and those green flag moments to look for right before it becomes a red flag.

So you’re thinking, cause I can experience that all the time. I know that when I feel bad. busy and I feel like I can’t keep up and I just got to keep pushing. That’s when I really need to go outside and take a walk. Like that’s when I, I need to take a nap. Right. And so I love that. I love that you were kind of painting this picture for us that these are symptoms that sometimes we push off and categorize them differently and not actually.

Take action with them and define them as burnout. I’m so happy you’re bringing this up.

Sandra: There’s, I was talking to a friend once about how, how often we’re ignoring all these little signals that our bodies are giving us. And I love the way that she phrased it. She said that when we don’t listen to our bodies and those little messages that they’re sending us.

sending us eventually our body is going to get gangster about it and they’re going to make you listen. So whether that’s burnout or you getting sick or whatever, that’s going to look like like you can only ignore the red flicks for so long before your body’s like, Hey, no, we’re not doing this anymore.

Quianna: Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay. So let’s say for example, we’re feeling these symptoms and after chatting with you and feeling a little a little bit more confident about those symptoms and those things to look for prior to burnout. Let’s say we’re there. Okay, we’re feeling it. We’re exhausted. We know we need to take a nap.

We know we need a vacation and an extra 5, 000 in our bank account would just solve everything, right? So what would you prioritize first? Before becoming completely burnt out and your body gets gangster on you and shuts down.

Sandra: Yeah, I think it’s really important to take some time to just kind of like brain dump an entire list of things that you need to get done.

When you keep it all in your head, not only do you start to forget things, but it just kind of gives you like this endless web to spin yourself through. And it makes things feel even more overwhelming. And so when you just kind of lay it all out on paper, get it out of your head, and have a visual representation of all the things that you have to get done, that will take some of that, like, just mental burden off of you.

If you’re anything like that, like me, at that point, you might want to cry about it a little bit, because there’s a lot of things that you have to get done. But once you get that therapeutic cry out of the way, then take a look at that list again and pick three things that are most important to get done today and then don’t worry about the rest.

And a lot of times I even just take those three things and I put them onto a separate piece of paper so that that’s all that I’m looking at and breaking it down that way makes things feel a lot less overwhelming and gives you a small amount of tangible tasks that you can get done when you don’t necessarily have 100 percent in your cup to give that day.

Quianna: I am so impressed with that too, because literally that’s my saving grace. I have a list in my notebook that I write out almost every single day and I literally call it hashtag, or I should say pound if I’m sharing my age, like hashtag everything. And I’m writing Literally, everything that I can ever think of comes out, right?

I mean, business wise, life wise, gifts that I need to purchase for friends and nieces and nephews coming up soon, house tasks and just all the things. I mean, making sure that Faith, my puppy girl, right, like my little dog, that she has a new bed, right? Like, so all these things are in my mind and I could see and actually feel the relief and Getting it on paper.

I think that is just so brilliant. And that is absolutely step one to creating a list and creating it and making it manageable. And I love how you mentioned too, taking that brain dump, getting it off of your mind, out of those cobwebs and all like, like kind of turn off, turn off that circuit in your brain and then make a short list, make it attainable.

Cause I know for me, for example, when I have a long list of things to do, I will just want to take a nap.

Sandra: I don’t want to do anything. Nothing gets done. It’s so true. But the great thing, like when you have only three things on your to do list for the day is that you can add that time in there. There’s plenty of time.

Now time is the best time. It’s my favorite time of day. So yeah, it just kind of makes it easier for you to get through that endless to do list that we always have as entrepreneurs. still being able to prioritize rest so that if you are heading towards burnout, you’re at least going to lessen the impact.

It’s not going to be as hard for you to get through. Hopefully it’ll be shorter if it does happen. Um, and so, yeah, all these little things can definitely make a difference.

Quianna: Yes. Well, you are a systems queen and I love your business and how you’ve literally made it your first. full time career to help other businesses stay on top of their systems, reduce burnout, and really be an advocate for mental health and all the incredible things that you stand for.

So I would love to kind of shift the conversation to systems. In your opinion, Sandra, what are some ways that symptoms not only make our lives easier, but make it so much easier and add so much value to our clients? Cause I have a caveat for you. We can, I can ask the question again in a second, but I feel like sometimes, especially as business owners, we always put our clients first, right?

We always put our clients first and we’re always considering their needs and their feelings above ours. And so sometimes there’s some speed bumps or it’s, it’s, It’s not so fast for us to quickly invest in systems and, and get that system like a well oiled machine. So maybe the shift is not so much taking care of us, let’s take care of our clients, right?

So, so to ask the question again, how can systems not only make our lives easier, but also add so much value for our clients.

Sandra: So as generic as it sounds, I think that, like, systems really can just make our lives so much simpler. And when we are so busy, we all have a million things on the go with our personal lives and our businesses.

Anything that we can take off of our plates is going to be such a game changer. So things like outsourcing, editing, and bookkeeping, um, using AI editing software. If you are into things like that, I’m a huge advocate for AI programs. Anything like that is just going to make daily life running your business so much easier.

But on the client side of things is where I really like to kind of drive a different perspective home systems. People get kind of worried that they’re going to be impersonal and take away from the experience that we’re delivering for our clients. Especially as photographers, we really like have so much passion for having that hands on experience with our clients.

But a lot of times that requires Our clients to be showing up when it works for us, which is fine. Like it’s our businesses and that has to happen. We have to have boundaries and we we can only do so much, right? We can’t always be there for our clients every time like we were just talking about. So when you utilize things like systems and automations.

You’re able to still work within your boundaries, but give respect to the fact that your client is also busy and they also have so much going on in their lives. So I’d love to use an example of like an online booking calendar. I personally went to book a hair appointment for a new salon that I’d never been to.

I was looking at three or four different places and it was 1130 on a Sunday night. And I. Pick the salon based on the fact that they were the only ones that had an online booking calendar available because I didn’t want to call in the next morning when they were going to be open. I was in that mindset.

I wanted to do it then, and that doesn’t mean that I get to book a hair and appointment for whenever I want to have it. I still have to book it within their hours and their availability. That’s a way that it’s a system that’s mutually beneficial for both you and your clients and showing that you have respect for them and their time as well as yours.

Quianna: Yes, I love that so much and I think it’s a really, really good reminder that we can kind of just ignite the ease and the just workflow for both us as business owners and our clients. I just think that’s incredible for you to have that kind of aha moment and to share that story. I think a lot of us can hear that because I even know for myself as a photographer for over two decades, I get it right.

Like, I feel like I. I love these touch points and I love this, but I’m busy too. And when the clients aren’t responding right away, as I hope they can, right, and especially in the wedding industry. Right. I mean, I know so many couples are so excited to respond, but a lot of them are on vacation. They’re busy.

They’re dealing with crazy work schedules and I don’t want to slow down my workflow or potentially let them fall through the cracks because I don’t have a system set up.

Sandra: Yeah, absolutely. And speaking specifically about weddings, the majority of couples are planning their weddings on Saturdays while the majority of their vendors are working.

And I’ve worked for and with so many vendors who would get so frustrated that they were getting emails from their clients on Saturdays because it would stress them out. They’re like, like, I’m working. I don’t have time to be dealing with you and your wedding, which is totally fair, but That’s when they like the client has a job five days a week and so their time to plan their wedding is on the weekends.

And so it’s definitely a hurdle that exists, but thankfully with automations and systems and things like that, you can bridge that gap and show up for those clients on those Saturdays while still being at a wedding and worrying about that couple and not having to focus on your inbox.

Quianna: Oh my gosh, that is such an incredible point because you’re right.

We want to have those fast auto responses. We want to be helpful to them. But I even know this for myself where I have like my brain really functions beds with what’s right in front of me. Right. So I literally laughing to myself thinking I could put myself in that photographer or those vendors shoes thinking, hold on, it’s not your turn.

I’m working on this one. Right. But we can’t have that mentality because they’re looking for answers. And a lot, oftentimes too, they’re just looking loose, right? They’re, they’re looking, just going back to your hair appointment search, right? They’re looking for answers. They’re looking for direction.

They’re looking for those next steps and systems can help with that. Yes. So, okay. So let’s say we have a vendor or a small business owner that understands the, the need and the quality of having automations and a really important workflow and system established. What are some ways that we can still add those touch points and still add that kind of almost handholding experience?

So it doesn’t just feel autopilot, check the box thing. Because. We are getting clients that are investing in us and we want to, we want to share that value with them. So what advice do you have for adding those touch points of just that hand holding experience?

Sandra: Definitely utilizing, um, a CRM system first and foremost, it’s going to be like the biggest game changer.

If you’re really wanting to bring systems and automations into your business. I’m a HoneyBook user. I’ve been a HoneyBook user for like five or six, maybe even seven years now. Um, ever since they came to Canada, unfortunately they were not in Canada from day one, but let me tell you day one that they came to Canada.

I signed up, um, and they have, I know a lot of other CRMs that have these features as well, but they have. Things called smart fields and smart fields are little boxes that you can implement into your email templates that will populate personalized information from your clients. So it will put their names in, it can put their wedding day in, it can put their venue in.

It can put their session date or location in like all this information can go into these email templates. So it’s auto populated in these personal details while you are just Clicking a button or the email is being sent on its own. Um, and so that is a really great way to make sure that it’s a personal interaction while still being automated and keeping it so that your client doesn’t feel like they’re one of a million.

Every client wants to know, especially when it comes to like something as personal as weddings or family portraits or anything like that, even branding portraits, they want to know that they are valued as a customer, that they’re not just another face. to you that they’re not just another dollar in your bank account.

And so using sort of features like that is a really great way to make it so that it’s a personalized experience for your clients. And then also putting yourself in your client’s shoes to think of questions that they are going to have for you along the way and answering those questions before they’re asked.

So with my family photo pricing guide, I have. The packages that are available to them. I have links to book online, but I also have information about me and my business. I have FAQs. So if they want to know which session is going to be the best fit for the number of people that they have in their family, or what’s going to happen if it rains, if they can bring their pet, all of those questions that they would want answers for before booking, they’re all answered inside that pricing guide.

And so when you are answering those questions before they’re asked, it makes your clients feel better. feel seen and heard in a I know everybody listening time where they were just me, whether they read it they just were like, wow, gets me. That’s a way tha that experience as well w

Quianna: Yes, this is such an important reminder, and I feel like it actually has the opposite effect.

So what was just kind of downloading through my brain as you were sharing that is I feel like sometimes there’s a hiccup or there’s a pushback for automations because they want that special touch as business owners to clients. But I think it’s the complete opposite, right? Because when you do have these systems set up, when you do have these workflows and these touchpoints and all the education to help them feel so prepared, you’re actually blowing them out of the water and making them feel so seen and so heard and so appreciated that, They love you.

Like they love that experience and they’re willing to pay more. They’re willing to invest more time, more energy, share those referrals, knowing that you are getting those personal touches just by being ahead, right? Just by getting those automations on lock. That is so brilliant, Sandra.

Sandra: Thank you. And yeah, it’s so true.

It’s definitely a reason why, especially like with my family clients and my mini sessions, particularly, I have a lot of clients who have grown with me as my prices have increased, my packages have changed, and they see the value, not only in the experience that I offer in the relationship that we’ve built working together for so long, but But they know what they can expect every single time because those systems are creating a consistent experience and they know that they’re going to be supported every step of the way.

And a lot of them that have been working with me for many years, like I have a family session coming up in a couple of weeks with clients that have been. Working with me for 11 years now, and they know that a lot of the emails that are coming their way are automated because they’ve gotten them so many times and they’re word for word exactly the same every time, but it doesn’t bother them and it doesn’t take away from the experience because they know what to expect and they know why these emails are coming their way.

Quianna: I love that so much. And you’re right. You’re developing this consistency. You’re developing this value and a huge authority piece too. Like that’s something we haven’t really mentioned either. Like you just take that honey book contract, that invoice, the payment plans, whatever you have that you’re sending.

And that elevates you from just a photographer or just a hobbyist or a small business vendor to a full fledged professional. I mean, that is just elevates you so fast. So I would love if you don’t mind, I’d love to kind of dive deeper into the back end of HoneyBook and in your experience of working with photographers and other vendors and small business owners, what are some automations that you have either brought to the table or You have shared with your clients that were huge aha moments.

And like, can you think of any, any times when someone had thought, Oh my gosh, I didn’t know I could automate that. Right. I would love to kind of share more of those aha moments.

Sandra: Yeah. I think the biggest aha moment for me, I kind of talked about it a little bit already was using an online booking calendar.

That was one that I was really hesitant to kind of take the leap with at first. And I know a lot of other photographers that I’ve worked with have felt the same way. They were worried that, you know, the possibility of one person booking a session at 10 a. m. and another person booking a session at 6 p. m.

and then having that whole window open during the day. And they like to, you know, sandwich their sessions together to kind of, you know, batch work their time out of the house and things like that. And those are all valid concerns for sure. But the great thing is, is that the online calendar isn’t permanent, right?

You can always go and change it. And so I What I did with my own business and what I do when I help other people set theirs up is we come up with a general schedule, um, and with a lot of online booking calendars too, you can create different ones. So like I have one for, um, my systems VIP day clients has one booking calendar, my family sessions has another booking calendar because One of them is happening primarily evenings and weekends.

The other one is primarily happening during regular business hours. Um, so I want to make sure that the availability is appropriate to whatever service is being booked. And so from there, once you kind of like come up with your general, um, availability, you can then connect that online calendar to your regular calendar that you’re using for your business.

So for me, that is Google calendar. I run everything through my Google calendar. My honey book is connected there. All of my online booking calendars are connected there. My personal appointments, everything. So that way, if I say have a dentist appointment at 10 o’clock, my family session availability, or I guess that would be, I’d have my dentist appointment on a weekday, so that would be my systems availability.

It is going to block off that 10 p. m. or 10 a. m. window so that I don’t have anybody accidentally booking a session during my dentist appointment. And when you have everything connected that way, it saves the hassle of accidentally double booking somebody, which I’m sure we’ve all been in that position before.

And it saves from having too many things booked in a day. But what I also love to do because I have everything all on my Google account. Calendar is that I don’t have to go into every single individual calendar to change my availability on every single one. If I wanted to take next week off, for example, I would just pop into my Google calendar and I would create an event that’s seven days long, set it as busy, and then that’s going to block it off on all of my calendars.

And so that’s a really great way that you’re able to just kind of have a hub for all of your appointments and schedulers. and be able to control them all from that one place. And I know when I talk to people about like, just block it off in your Google calendar, they’re like, hold up. I’ve been spending so much time going in and changing my 15 different calendars in my honey book scheduler.

Um, so you don’t have to do that. You can just pop it all in whether you’re using iCal or Google calendar or whatever that may be. Control your availability from that platform and have it connected to everywhere else. And then that way you can also use that to, to, um, I was saying before, like some people having concerns about their sessions being too spread out.

Well, if you had somebody book a 6 p. m. session, for example, you could then book. You know, 10 p. m. or 10 a. m. to 2 p. m. and have that set as unavailable. So now anybody that books a session going forward has to book in the afternoon. So there’s lots of ways that you can play around with it. And like I was saying before with my hair appointment, like there are a lot of people who are going to book that session when it’s good for them, because when it’s good for you, it doesn’t work with their schedule.

Quianna: Yes, this is so smart and I love that we are being really proactive and really prioritizing our time, our energy, and our efforts. And I even remember this when I first was starting photography too, if someone reached out to me, I was just like a puppy dog. Okay, when, when it works for you, I’ll be there.

And oh, sure, I’ll move this around or oh, I’ll skip this so I can be there. And I think as a business owner, we can pause, we can take a breath, we can look at our calendar, we can determine our busy seasons. And I even did this too. This is even a little. A little like sales pitch for mini sessions, right?

When I would, when I would book my mini sessions, I would not book at 10 a. m. to sunset day. I was so strategic to only offer about a two to three hour block window with 30 minute sessions in between, right? And so That was it. And if those were sold out, sorry, catch you next time. Or, right? And I also think too, there’s another layer of that professionalism and that booked and busy vibe.

So let’s say someone goes to book a call with you, whether it’s for you and your VIP days and your systems workflows, or it’s for me in a branding session or A content creation day and they see that I’m not available for two or three weeks out even more that already kind of create some urgency, right?

And they don’t need to know that it’s 4th of July week and I’m at the lake. They don’t need to know that right or whatever going is going on personally in your life. And I feel like that already adds another step of professionalism and yeah, like scarcity for sure. Yes, that’s it. We don’t want to scare anybody.

But it does make them kind of jump and say, Oh, whoa, I better, I better book.

Sandra: Yeah, absolutely. I actually went through that exact same thing with the family clients that I said, I’ve been working with for the last 11 years. They were one of my very first wedding clients and I have done like their siblings weddings.

I’ve done family photos for them. I just adore them so much. And I’m one of their last sessions. They mentioned to me like, Oh, we noticed like there was not a lot of available of availability on your booking calendar. Like that’s so awesome. And in my head, I was like, that’s so sweet guys. But like, I just don’t take sessions Mondays, Tuesdays, or Wednesdays.

And so like the weekends were booked up, of course, but I was like, I’m not going to tell them that they don’t need to know that. That’s so sweet of them to notice.

Quianna: Exactly. And already that just elevates you. And they’re, they’re thinking, well, since I’m a, I’m a regular, I better get on this, right? Yeah, exactly.

So, okay, so yes, we are absolutely creating this professional vibe for our clients. But I do want to kind of swing it back to us as business owners and share how much time can we really save by putting in the work and preparing our CRMs? Like, let’s talk about the benefits for us as business owners. This is one

Sandra: of my favorite questions because even though math is not my strong suit by any means, I also love numbers.

It’s a weird, weird thing. Um, and so. When I say that a CRM system can save us, save us so much time, I am highly underestimating that. So I did the math one day and if you were to send 20 emails in a day and you were to save yourself one minute from every single one of those emails, so whether that be by pulling up a template or having it sent automatically, whatever the case may be, if you save yourself one minute from 20 emails, that’s going to add up to 20 minutes a day, which is awesome.

Not going to make our Make or break our day by any means, but who doesn’t love having an extra 20 minutes. When you take that 20 minutes and you add it up over a month, it actually totals more than six and a half hours of time. So if you can automate even just some of your emails and save yourself Six and a half hours of time every month that becomes such a game changer.

And if you are like me, when you start automating things and you start seeing how much time it’s saving you, it becomes a little bit addicting and you start kind of looking around, trying to figure out what else you can automate, because who wouldn’t rather go to the beach or sit by the pool or just binge some Netflix rather than spending an extra hour or two in their inbox every week.

Quianna: Wow, that is literally mind blowing and I think it’s such a beautiful I don’t I don’t even want to call it a gentle reminder. This is the in your face reminder. Okay, business owners, if you’re listening to this, like we need to get that time back. Oh my gosh, that’s insane. And yes, and I’ve had conversations to with other system experts and just the thought I know a lot of us are pivoting and growing and expanding and maybe the first answer when we’re getting ready to make that first hire isn’t necessarily a full on admin support.

Maybe it is investing in a CRM to get a lot of that off your plate, build those systems. So it’s just It’s easy. I mean, I would love to wake up and I do this with, I have a honey book as well, and I see what’s on my calendar and some of those automation, automations that go through and I get those little reminders.

I’m like, Oh my gosh, yay, thank you. Like I’m not paying a admin to do that for me, right? Or an assistant. Um, it’s just already built into my workflow and that is genius, Sandra.

Sandra: And I think like virtual assistants are great. They do so much and they can be such a game changer for a business, but not everybody is in a position to work with a VA and that’s not even necessarily just considering the finances.

But if you don’t have the, like the groundwork already laid out in your business with, you know, operating procedures written down and things like that. A virtual assistant might end up feeling like it’s not worth the money that you’re paying, that you don’t have what they need to be successful at their job.

And so CRMs and really utilizing the automations that are available with the systems that you can build in them is kind of like a middle point between having to do it all yourself and having a VA. Um, and so I don’t have a VA in my business, maybe one day, but at this point, um, just really leaning into my systems and automations has been absolutely perfect for my business.

And so I think anyone who is feeling overwhelmed by trying to keep up with all the things, but a VA doesn’t feel like the right fit for you, leaning into systems and workflows is definitely going to be the right path for you to consider.

Quianna: Yes, I love that so much. And you’re right. We’ve mentioned HoneyBook before.

I would love to ask you why HoneyBook and how are you implementing HoneyBook into working with you for your own clients for VIP days? I love to kind of just shout out HoneyBook. We both use it. We both adore it. And, um, what made you land on HoneyBook?

Sandra: I honestly don’t even remember what it was that made me so excited to work with them when I first signed up.

I just, there was a lot of features that they had available back then that weren’t available in other CRM platforms. And so as soon as it was available in Canada and because so many of my colleagues and peers highly recommended it in the U S I jumped on board. Um, and it’s totally changed since then. I honestly don’t even remember what HoneyBook was like back when I started, but now just, they’ve.

Implemented so many changes. And one of my favorite things about HoneyBook is that they really listen to their community and user feedback. And it changes that they implement are ones that we’re actually asking for, which I know, like we can use Instagram as the perfect example of somebody who does the opposite of that, where every time we get a new Instagram feature, everybody is like, Hey, but we don’t need this.

We. Didn’t ask for it. Nobody wants this like Instagram flip side that lasted like a month or so and nobody use it. So then it just disappeared. Um, honey book is not like that at all. So the new features that they implement are things that people are actually asking for inside their community. And so that has been really awesome to see.

Um, and we now have things like really fully customizable smart files that you can put literally everything. And so I was talking a little bit about my family photo smart file earlier today or earlier in this interview, but, um, it includes all of the pricing information. It includes booking links. It includes FAQs and information about me.

Those booking links will actually lead them right to a form that they can fill out to automate that whole process. So they get that pricing guide, they go and they look at my availability. They book their session, they pay their deposit, then a contract gets emailed to them and they can sign it and they’re officially booked.

And I have not been a part of that process at all. Um, and my clients love it. It’s all fully branded and filled with my photos and things like that. And then just the, uh, the different features they have for organization, you can now automate different steps just to keep you organized, not necessarily only automating things that are client facing is another really amazing feature inside HoneyBook.

Yeah, those are my top two things that I think are like my best. My most favorite thing is really just being able to keep things branded, um, the intuitive automations for keeping things organized. I’ve been a lifelong chronic organizer. I used to just like organize my huge CD collection for fun when I was a kid or like reorganize my bedroom at 11 o’clock, which I’m sure my parents loved when I got that be in my bonnet, I would go full ADHD mode.

I’m like, now’s the perfect time to organize these things. 300 cds. Um, so it really just kind of like made sense for me to get into systems and whenever any sort of program releases new organization features, I’m like, Ooh, what do I have here? It’s like Christmas for me. And then, so kind of into, I talk a lot about photography, but I’m, I’m still new as a two business owner.

Sometimes it’s hard to remember like, Oh, that’s right. Like this is a, my systems business is a real thing now. I just, I love it. So. I love photography so much, and it’s just it’s weird. I never thought I would be a multi business owner. So sometimes like I get sidetracked on the photography things. But as far as my VIP days and how I have those systems all set up, it’s really kind of the same framework that I use for my photography business.

I like to keep everything simple, um, make sure that I’m being realistic with the things that I’m setting up with time, like turnaround times and things like that. Um, and also kind of fine tuning how it all comes together for me. The smart files that I have for those VIP days is the same kind of idea as the family sessions where it gives all that important information about who I am, what to expect during the service, um, kind of like a step by step walkthrough of the whole entire process from start to finish.

Pricing information, links to book, and then those booking links again will take them to a page where they can fill out their information, they can pay their first payment, they’ll get a contract automatically. inbox. And again, it’s al And so no matter what kin coming into a CRM with, w or you offer some other s are so many different way

Tailor it to your business needs, which is really nice.

Quianna: Incredible. Oh my gosh. I love this so much. So what would, what would you say is the biggest transformation that you’re creating and that you love to create for these business owners that do work with you for your VIP dates?

Sandra: My favorite service that are our favorite thing that I love to work on with my clients on VIP days is definitely an inquiry workflow.

This is the number one thing that I find missing from every photographer that I work with. And I think the biggest reason for that is because we do put so much value in that personal hands on experience. Experience with our clients. And so I’m hoping that like everybody’s biggest takeaway from this episode is that you can still give that really hands-on personal experience while also leaning into automations and workflows.

And so with an inquiry workflow, I. I love autoresponders so much. I think there’s so much power in a really strategic autoresponder as opposed to just like a general one that lets someone know that you’re not in your inbox. So we’ve talked a lot about, um, serving your clients in a way that you are answering questions before they’re asked.

and just giving them the information that you know that they’re going to need. You can put something like that into your autoresponder. You can also use an autoresponder to start data mining from your clients and collecting information from them. That’s going to be beneficial for you going forward.

Having something like that set up to either deliver information or start collecting information, I think is super important. And then, of course, also including the information about when you’re going to be in your inbox, when people can expect to hear from you. That one especially because we all know what it feels like to send somebody an email or to fill out an inquiry form and then just kind of sit there and twiddle our thumbs and we’re not 100 percent sure if they even received it or if we’re going to hear anything back from them.

So having an autoresponder that just says, Hey, I’ve received your email. Here’s what I’m in my inbox. And here’s how long it typically takes me to reply is such a game changer for people. And then, yeah, being able to include things like booking links and things like that is a way that you can just keep showing up for your clients and create a, an experience for those clients that is totally different from everybody else.

Um, with the photography industry, and I know a lot of different industries feel this way, it feels really oversaturated a lot of the time. We hear that word a lot. There are a lot of photographers out there. There’s no way that we can deny that. And in 2024, unfortunately, having beautiful work is not the differentiator that it used to be when it comes to, you know, trying to stand out from the competition.

There are so many people out there that do absolutely incredible work. And so we have to kind of start thinking of different ways that we can set ourselves apart and by using autoresponders and getting into people’s inboxes first, giving them all the information they need, but that I’m having to ask.

for it. Those are all ways that you can really start to deliver a next level experience to your clients. And so that’s why I always recommend getting the autoresponder started first. Um, or sorry, getting that inquiry workflow started first, including follow ups and things like that. And so that way you are also if you’re like just getting started with these systems and workflows, getting that inquiry workflow up and running sets you up for today moving forward.

It’s not worrying about all the product projects that you have on the go. And I think that becomes a little bit overwhelming to when we think about systems and workflows. It’s like, Well, it’s going to be so much work to have to apply it to all of the projects that I already have on the go. So with an inquiry workflow, you don’t have to worry about all those.

They’ve already inquired. They’ve already been booked. You can just carry on with those. And now with every new inquiry that’s coming forward from here, you’ve got them set up with a workflow.

Quianna: Yes. Oh my gosh, that is so genius. And already I can feel my nervous system kind of regulating and just feeling like, oh, that sounds like a breath of fresh air.

I need to update those personally. I know I do. I love that. And what advice would you give to someone that’s ready to set up that auto responder? So I wanted, I had like a little asterisk by that in my mind when you were sharing that, because I feel like I’ve seen quite a gamut of auto responders where there’s a quick little, oh, here’s a fun fact.

Here’s a booking link. And it feels very directed and very, very easy, right? Where I’ve also seen some autoresponders that are like, Whoa, I can go in seven different directions here. I can listen to a podcast. I can read a blog post. I could write the photographer that I’m inquiring for. Oh my gosh, she does 17 different things and, and it could feel a little bit overwhelming.

So in your opinion, Sandra, is there a sweet spot for the information to share in that autoresponder? I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.

Sandra: Yeah, I really think there is. Um, I, I just think it’s important to keep everything simple. My very first Like dipping my toe into the water with wedding workflows.

My workflow was like 72 steps long and it was so overwhelming and I was just constantly like skipping past things. It was a mess. My workflow for weddings now is 12 steps. So I keep things simple. And so when it comes to auto responders again, keep it simple, keep it to just the information that they want to know right now.

So there’s lots of other information that I send my clients for my VIP days, for example, I have an intake questionnaire where I’m getting all of the information that I need about their business, what kind of workflow I’m going to be helping them build. They have any email templates that are existing or any photos that they want me to include.

I could include that with my HoneyBook smart file so that after they sign their contract, they then fill out the questionnaire. But I just feel like that’s a lot, like that’s a lot to ask them to do when we’re going to, we have a couple of weeks from the point that they have it. initially booked until when their VIP day is going to happen.

So they have time. So after they book, it’ll be a day or two before I send that questionnaire out and then give them some time to work on it. Um, and same goes with photography as well. Like if I were to give my clients a link to my online gallery that I send it to everybody to help them choose a location, um, and give them ideas on what to wear and start talking about blankets and props for their session all when they book, that’s way too much information to be giving them right away.

And so. So kind of, it’s really important to take time to put yourself in your client’s shoes and think about what they are going to be experiencing in the time leading up to working with you. And then after that, and just kind of approaching it in the same timeframe that they’re going to need it. And so that’s why I really focus on, um, for my photography clients, it’s like, what happens if it’s going to rain?

So. How many like it’s a half an hour long enough for pictures of 15 people, which the answer is always no. And things like that. And so those kinds of questions are questions that they’re going to be having before they book a session. Um, and then you can always deliver more information as you go and really lean into those automations so that the information is getting sent out to them.

Um, I remember the first time I had an educational email about inspiration on what to wear sent out to my clients. Automatically, instead of me having to manually send it out myself, I thought I forgot and I ran upstairs to my computer in a total panic because it was like two days before their session and I was like, I never sent this email and I popped in the honey book and then I was greeted with a pleasant reminder that I had automatically Switch.

I switched it to automatically send out and so they got that information. I got to breathe a sigh of relief and feel that weight lift off of me that I’d forgotten something, um, and got to just go back and continue enjoying Netflix because I think it was late to when I realized it.

Quianna: Yes, that’s incredible.

And that’s one of those. I feel like I’m saying this all the time, like that’s where present me thinks like the past me. It’s like, thank you for setting those up and getting this all set to roll so you can actually relax and not stress. I love it. Right. So much. Oh my gosh. Okay. So full circle moment here.

I love kind of tying all the pieces together and kind of threading through our conversation. So we’ve talked about workloads, we’ve talked about calendars, we’ve talked about preventing burnout, and I would just love to kind of. Tie a bow around the conversation that now that we have these systems in place, what are some ways you suggest we can add self care into our busy working routines?

And you know, when I say self care, it can be totally a buzzword. It could have some type of, you know, all different types of meanings, but truly What are some ways as a workflow expert that we can add these pockets of time so we can prevent this burnout?

Sandra: Yeah, I, so I want everybody that’s listening, even if you have to pause the episode right now and then come back to it in a couple minutes, I want you to just take a look at your calendar and see if there’s anything that you Find some time that you have available that you are going to book as non negotiable time off.

Even, no matter how busy your calendar looks, if you’ve got, you know, two days this month and every other day has something on it, I want you to book those two days off. Or if you, you know, only have, you have an afternoon this week that has nothing on the go, I want you to book that half an hour off.

Because one really important thing to remember as photographers, as service people, as people offering services, is that not every day is meant to be a day behind our camera. We have entire businesses that have to run, we have to take time off, we have to rest, we have lives and families. And so when you approach your calendar, With the mindset of not every day is meant to be a day behind your camera, you’ll start to see how important it is to balance it all because as much as we love creating and we have so much passion for our photography, we are business owners at the end of the day.

And there’s so many other things that need to get done. And I know from my own personal experience, I was approaching every day as a day behind the camera. My editing was piling up, my bookkeeping was not getting done, my taxes were not getting filed on time. I was not getting groceries done. Like there were so many things that would just keep piling up and piling up and piling up and then adding in like all of the things that I have to manage with chronic illness life.

It just can become too much. And so First steps is just prioritizing, taking time off. It will make you a better business owner in the long run, as counter, as counterintuitive as it sounds, we can’t pour from an empty cup, right? We’ve heard that saying a million times before. And so rest is how we do that.

If we want to keep showing up for our clients and deliver that amazing service that we know they hired us for, and that we know we want to offer, and we want longevity with this business that we’ve been pouring our hearts and souls into. We need to prioritize. filling up our own cups so that we can keep giving to everybody else.

Quianna: Yes, I love that so much. And one of the first things that comes to mind with that too is really regulating our energy. Because I know for example, right, like you can look at our calendar and let’s say you have an empty day coming up and a friend reaches out and they like to grab brunch with you and you look at that day on the fly on your phone and you think, Oh, sure.

Yeah, absolutely. I’m free that day. And you know, maybe you’re caught up with your work and maybe you can, but It’s the day after a big wedding or it’s the day after a big event or you had a travel day the day before and you’re coming in and you have that blank morning that you would absolutely love to grab a coffee with a business bestie or, you know, even your mom, but because of your energy level, you’re going to regret it.

Right. And so I think that has been a huge game changer for me is almost doing an energy audit. So not even an actual work audit. But taking an energy audit to look at what’s coming up and being really intentional about blocking off that time and then just looking at the calendar a day or two plus when you are planning that next event or saying yes to something and really think about it, right?

Because we can pull through. We can pull through. Push through, but that I think is what personally leads me to so much burnout is when I am a, I feel like I’m a extroverted introvert. So people really lift me up. I love being around people, but I, I just, I, I’m an empath, right? Or I just, I carry so much of the energy that I need to literally cleanse it through literally going swimming and taking long showers, taking baths, like taking naps, totally recharging and unplugging.

And that does not happen unless I’m being very intentional with my time.

Sandra: Yeah, absolutely. I have had people call me a boundary queen before, because when it comes to business, I learned the hard way many, many times dealing with burnout and I just don’t play around with it anymore. Um, especially having chronic illnesses that do require.

So much, so much mental energy just to manage, but also they take so much of my energy from me that I, again, like if I’m going to be showing up for my clients and delivering that service that I know they hired me for, then I need to take that into consideration. And so I actually go through my calendar at the beginning of every year and for all of my wedding bookings, I book off the day before and the day after I only do one wedding per weekend.

And I don’t do, um, even two weekends in a row anymore, just because it’s way too hard on my body and it takes me too long to recover. But yeah, like just having honest conversations with yourself about your energy levels and what you’re capable of, I think is so, so important and it’s not, I feel like a lot of people are afraid to do that because we think that we’re hindering ourselves by saying like, I’m not, I’m only capable of doing this.

There’s nothing wrong with that. We’re only human. We can all only do so much. And when we try to be that, you know, superhuman, that’s giving 150 percent all the time that like you were saying is exactly how we are going to burn out. So prioritizing that time off is so important. Um, making sure that you’re doing things for you, like swimming or going out for coffee with your friends, um, is super, super important.

But like you also just said, I, I went swimming the last two days, which I’ve been so proud of myself for. And it’s like, Almost 40 degrees Celsius where I am, which is like pushing about a hundred degrees Fahrenheit. Um, and it’s the perfect day for being by the pool, right? But I am so tired today from swimming the last two days.

And I’ve got a wedding coming up this weekend. I have a couple of meetings this week. And so as much as I would love to be poolside in this heat, I know for my energy, it’s just not the best idea when I have clients that I have to show up for. for the next day. So having some honest conversations with yourselves is definitely important and just making sure that you’re not looking at your limitations in a negative way.

Quianna: Yes. Oh, I love that. That’s a beautiful reminder. Oh my gosh, this has been so good, Sandra. I’m loving this conversation and I feel like this is something that All of us need to do internally with our own kind of checkpoints and creating those boundaries. And then also sharing these conversation with business besties and sharing these boundaries and these workflows and systems and asking them, Hey, when do you send out this email?

Or, Hey, when do your clients need this? These are the conversations that I love to have because I’m always learning and I’m always sharing, right? We’re always just bouncing off of each other. So I would love to ask you, Sandra, I asked every single guest on the podcast, what is your key tip? What is something that you wish you knew sooner or that you’re excited to share with entrepreneurs today?

Sandra: Um, this definitely piggybacks off of what I was just saying from your last question, but I think it’s so important for entrepreneurs to remember that taking time off will actually make you a better business owner. I don’t want to say everybody listening, but the majority of us, especially if you are over the age of like 30, 35 years old, you started your business in the midst of hustle culture where it was uh, If you weren’t working all day, every day, 365 days a year, and just hustling for your business, you were doing it wrong.

And so it’s so important for us to realize that that’s not, it might work for some people. It doesn’t work for most people. And it’s not the only way to do things. It’s not the only way to be successful in business success. looks different for absolutely everybody. Um, and so I think it’s just so important for people to remember to take time off.

And when you feel like you can’t take time off is the time that you absolutely need to take some time off.

Quianna: Yes. Oh my gosh. I’m like over here. Ding, ding, ding. Yes. I love that answer. It’s giving us permission to take a break. It’s giving us permission to be more intentional with our time and energy and let’s go take a family nap.

Like that sounds fantastic.

Sandra: Let’s just. My cat is literally waiting here for me to get off this call for nap time.

Quianna: I love that so much. And you’re right. I feel like our businesses are actually going to start speed up when we slow down. So that is, it’s so true. So smart. Oh my gosh. Well, how can we connect with you, Sandra?

And how can we start lurking your page, learning from you and becoming your BFF?

Sandra: Yeah, you can find me on Instagram, Tik TOK and threads at simply Sandra Yvonne. Um, I’m on threads the most these days. I absolutely love it over there, but yeah. You definitely like if you’re coming over to the Reds, you’re just coming to hang out and to be friends because there’s there’s no learning happening over there.

You’re going to hear about my opinions on Bravo reality shows, chronic illness, life and all the things. But that’s a place to just come and hang out for some fun and nonsense. Um, and then I also have a podcast as well called keeping it candid, where I dive into All things, photography and systems and wedding industry, um, what it’s like running a business as an entrepreneur with chronic illnesses and things like that.

Um, and then of course, my website is simply sandreevon. ca.

Quianna: Amazing. I am so grateful for our connection and so happy you reached out. I am just so grateful. So grateful for this conversation. This is something that all business owners need to tap into, whether they’re just getting started or they have been in the business for a while and they’re just ready for a little refresh and a little refinement.

So thank you so much. You’re so welcome. And thank you so

Sandra: much for having me. This was so much fun.

Quianna: Yay. Oh my gosh. We’ll have a beautiful day and enjoy your nap.

Sandra: Thank you.

Quianna: Yeah. Wow. Doesn’t that make you want to revamp your entire client experience? I’ve had the honor of interviewing a handful of workflow experts and every conversation I learn more about system secrets and automation hacks.

I’m so grateful. Sandra encourages all of us to revisit our calendars to do an energy audit and to slow down to see. We get into this business for more freedom and to make an impact. It’s hard to do that when we feel drained, scrambled, and unorganized with the back end of our business. Make sure to follow along with Sandra at SimplySandraYvonne on social media, and don’t hesitate to reach out to learn more about her VIP days and how she can help simplify your systems.

I’m so thankful for these connection calls, and I’m so, so happy you’re here with us. And it feels like we’re just grabbing a coffee and having a co working day together, right? I just love these conversations. If you have a business bestie that needs to hear this episode, please share it with them.

Everyone needs a little grace and the reminder that it’s vital for us to rest and recharge to keep going and growing. Make sure to check out episode number 41, creating workflows and systems to amplify your weddings with Laura Murphy, as well as episode number 107, creating boundaries for abundance with Jessica Whittaker.

If you have a question or would like help with finding an episode to add to your playlist, Please DM me seriously. My DMs are open and I would love to chat with you. Feel free to shoot over a DM to Quianna Marie about any topics or questions about business, photography, branding, or marketing, or really anything.

And I’ll happily share over a couple episodes for you to dive into. Thanks again for listening. I’m so grateful for you. Please don’t forget you’re powerful. You’re overqualified. More people need to know about you. I’m always cheering for you, babe. Keep on dancing. Cannot wait to chat next week. Okay. Love you.

Bye! That’s a wrap on another episode of Quianna Marie Weekly. Thank you so much for your listenership and support. You can find the resources and show notes for this episode and more at QuiannaMarie.com I’d be honored if you’d show your support by leaving a review and rating on your favorite podcast app until next time, keep on dancing.