Hello, beautiful! I am beyond honored and grateful to introduce you to today’s guest, one of my besties in the wedding industry: Ty Z. Wilson! Ty is a wedding photographer in Seattle, Washington who documents loving couples in a beautiful, vibrant, and genuine way. I am so excited to chat with Ty today about creating a more inclusive and LGBTQ+ friendly business. We are going to dive right into the questions that may be scary or uncomfy to ask, but with the intention of becoming truly more welcoming in our brand. With education and encouragement, we can create a business where everyone feels welcomed, understood, and loved.
On Quianna Marie Weekly, we’re chatting about business growing pains, finding genuine connections, and celebrating wins of all sizes through the lens of a photographer at heart. Sprinkled throughout stories and interviews with past clients, photographers and other business owners this podcast is designed to help you step into your purpose and to truly create a life you’re proud of, a life worth photographing and sharing.
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Review the Show Notes:
How Can Wedding Photographers Be More Inclusive? (3:10)
How To Include More Diversity In Your Photos (5:35)
Terminology And How To Use Certain Words (11:27)
Gendered vs. Gender-Neutral Terms And When To Use Them (15:58)
Language To Avoid (22:58)
Advice For The New Ally (28:10)
What Do You Say In The Caption? (33:34)
Being Genuine With Your Posts (39:06)
What Do You Do If You Get Called Out? (44:57)
The Groomsman In The Bride’s Dress Trend (48:04)
Get Connected with Ty (51:15)
Mentioned in this Episode:
Connect with Ty:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tyzwilson/
Website: https://tyzwilson.com/
LGBTQ+ Vocabulary and Glossary https://tyzwilson.com/tools-and-resources
Review the Transcript:
Quianna Marie
Good morning beautiful. Today is a great day and I am beyond honored and truly grateful to introduce you to today’s guest, we are going to be diving deep answering those juicy questions sparking those conversations that a lot of us have. That may be so fearful to ask. I know in today’s society, we are exposed to cancel culture. And that can be very liberating for some, but for many, it can also be crippling and sometimes puts us in a position where we don’t want to put ourselves out there, or we are truly afraid to offend everyone, so we just don’t say anything. So if this is resonating with you, I am so so happy you’re here to chat with one of my besties in the wedding industry. His name is Ty Z. Wilson. Ty is a gay wedding photographer in Seattle, Washington, who celebrates love for passionate couples and documents their life in such a beautiful, vibrant and genuine way. I met Ty through our show at community and show it is what our websites are created through. We’ve met at multiple multiple United events. Spark is coming up this November, and of course different conferences and workshops and retreats. Over the years. Ty is that best friend that everyone wishes they had someone to truly connect with. So without further ado, let’s welcome ty to the party. Pull up a comfy seat. Grab a drink and let’s get this party started. Welcome to Quianna Marie weekly, a podcast for creatives who love to celebrate wins, big or small by dancing in the kitchen photographers who are excited to serve their clients and friends who are ready to chase really, really big dreams. You can find all of the resources mentioned in this episode at quiannamarie.com/podcast. Join me as I share weekly motivation, chat about growing pains, finding genuine connections and celebrating your wins through the lens of a photographer at heart. Come join me for a dance party. Ready? Love though. All right. All right. Welcome to the party tie. I’m so so thankful you’re here with us today.
Ty Wilson
Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here today.
Quianna Marie
Yes, oh my gosh, well, this is definitely a hot topic. And by hot I mean, fun, and truly a topic that I feel like some people may be afraid to talk about with this canceled culture going on. And all of this, you know, just the I would say the heat of our society right now can be a little scary. But we all know that with a little bit of education, and a little bit of fun facts and encouragement. I feel like there’s no hard questions, and that we can truly make everyone feel welcome and loved.
Ty Wilson
Absolutely. I totally agree.
Quianna Marie
Yeah. So let’s dive right into these questions. I’m so thankful that you’re here to chat about being more inclusive, and truly just be more welcoming to any wedding guest couple anyone that is inquiring with us, let’s just get to these juicy questions. So Ty, how can wedding photographers be more inclusive? And what exactly does that mean? Yeah, so
Ty Wilson
I think the the second part of that is the most important thing is what does it mean to be inclusive, and I think to really be inclusive, that means that you’re, you know, open and willing to be supportive of you know, love or your couples your clients in whatever form their relationship looks like to that for some people it might be same sex, you know, same sex relationships, some people that might be non binary, or, you know, they might have a trans identity, sometimes it can even be, you know, race based. And I think being inclusive is just, you know, being open to working with anyone, despite you know, them maybe having a different way of life than you or different beliefs than you and just accepting them for who they are, and loving them for what makes them different than you do not, you know, what makes them the same as you. I think the very first thing that you know, people can do, or I guess what visually, if we’re talking to photographers, what visually can be done to show that you’re inclusive is to really show imagery of that inclusion. So if you’re trying to be inclusive of same sex couples, or LGBTQ couples, show same sex couples or show non binary couples on your website, if you’re trying to be inclusive of racial minorities, show black individuals or black couples on your website, show, you know, Latina couples on your Latin ex couples on your website, show what you want to be inclusive of, and you will start to naturally attract that as well. But if it’s, you know, kind of across the board with wedding vendors, maybe you’re you know, not a photographer and so you’re not like, Oh, well I can’t just go out and get these images myself. You know, maybe I’m a event planner and I have to wait for you know, images from a wedding photographer, it doesn’t have to be just images, you can, you know, include a statement on your website, talking about how you’re inclusive, talking about how you know, all love is welcome and how you don’t exclude people based on who they love. Follow that up with a few blog, write blog posts about how you’re inclusive, and why, you know, inclusion is important to you why diversity is important to you, and then go out of your way to get those images, regardless of what type of vendor you are, you have to follow it up by some sort of action as well.
Quianna Marie
I love that. And I remember recently, we were chatting about different ways that you I believe you have information on this on your website, like you have tons of resources for photographers and small business owners. So like, what are some action steps they can do? Because and I want to be totally blunt with this conversation, and I just want to ask the juicy questions that most people are thinking. So let’s say you are a photographer and a small town. And maybe just by circumstance, you don’t have access to a lot of diversity. Or you maybe don’t even have friends in your local group that are trans that you would love to just be more open and accepting of. So what would be your course of action to without being too obvious, right? Like, you don’t want to just go out and start pointing at people and be like, Hey, I think you’re pretty or, Hey, you know, you and your boyfriend, I really want to photograph the two of you, Oh, can we? Can we hook up? Right? And so like, what is something that we can do kindly to get these models?
Ty Wilson
Yeah, great question. Great question. And that’s what everyone’s fear always is right? Especially if you’re like, based in Central US, or you know, away from a big city. If you’re in a small town, a lot of people think like, oh, well, I just there’s no no gay community around me, or there’s no queer community around me. How do I go about finding these people? I don’t know anyone. First of all, we’re everywhere so lightly in your hometown, I don’t care if you’re in the middle of Oklahoma, and your town has 300 people in it, we’re there. That being said, I would say very first thing, include a statement on your website, if you have it just to let people know before you even like, reach out and find people. Because usually, if you’re going to reach out to someone and ask like, Hey, can I take your photograph, and if you’re doing it, you know, not in person asking them directly, like, if you’re doing it over online, they’re probably going to Google you and they’re probably going to check out your work. And if they’re the first person that you’ve ever potentially photographed or are wanting photograph, they’re not going to see themselves on your website. And so they have to at least see some sort of statement on your website saying, you know, what your values and beliefs are so you know, something that you value, you know, you believe every person is deserving of dignity and respect. And you know, you advocate for LGBTQ rights, or women’s rights and racial equality. And, you know, you need to recognize these things and state on your website that you support, all love, all genders, all bodies, you know, all races, all abilities, so that they at least know that they can trust you, or that you know, that they hope that they can trust you. And then the next step is okay, how do we actually ask people, I always say, start as close to home as possible. So if you have any, you know, queer friends, or you have any friends who are involved in the LGBTQ plus community, reach out to them first and say, you know, hey, this is something that’s really important to me, you know, my business values. Inclusivity we want to show that we’re inclusive and supportive of the LGBTQ community. And I want to showcase that so that, you know, people who come to my website can see they can see themselves represented, talk about how representation is really important to you, and then ask if you can photograph them, if you’re upfront with your intention behind it. A lot of people are going to say yes, especially if you know obviously you’re providing that those photos for free or that session for free. Anyone who comes up to me like if they were to be like, hey, you know, I this is why I want to photograph few hands down I’ll say yes. If they don’t state that and they’re like, really pushy about like wanting to photograph me I get a little bit hesitant, I’m like, is this tokenism because you’re not even upfront about like, what your ask is for. So just just let them know ahead of time. But if you don’t have anyone, you know, close to home that, you know, two things that you can do reach out to a local, you know, queer organization, look for some type of, you know, queer community, close to where you live, and get involved with that volunteer if they need, you know, assistance with anything or if they’re planning events, just offered to show up, you know, be hands get involved before making the apps and then you can make the apps or if you need to go to a different location. You know, it’s okay to take a business trip to get the content that you need set up, you know, a style, shoot and hire models, we hire straight models all the time. So we can go ahead and hire queer models, you know, we can hire, you know, other racial minorities as well. And we can hire the models that we want and pay them for the service that they’re providing us. And they’re providing us an opportunity to showcase the work that we want to attract.
Quianna Marie
I love that. And I feel like you hit it right on the nail where you said, it’s important to kind of share the heart. And the reason why instead of just asking for photos and saying, Hey, I have this opportunity for you, I have this opportunity for you to take really pretty pictures, and oh, I’m checking out this location, right? Like, if we can really share the reasoning behind it. Because I just feel like it’s a ripple effect, where if you can showcase one loving couple that’s just going to bring in more and make more people feel comfortable in their own skin, that that’s what I’m all about. It doesn’t matter who you are, who you love, or what you look like, as long as you can feel confident and loved in your own skin. That’s just magical. So, so I love how you mentioned you have to lead with that.
Ty Wilson
Yeah, absolutely. And like you mentioned that ripple effects. Like if you start with that honesty and vulnerability of like, why you’re asking, they’re going to be more willing to be open and vulnerable to taking a chance on, you know, letting you photograph them.
Quianna Marie
I love that. And I’d love to kind of backtrack a little bit where you mentioned already having that copy or that text on your website. Okay. And I’ve heard even just in this conversation already, we’ve kind of been dropping some names, right. So I’ve heard queer, I’ve heard same sex marriage. I’ve heard gay, I’ve heard trans and so I, and this is part of why I want to have this genuine conversations is because like, what do all these? I mean, I, I am educated enough to know what these words mean. But for anyone listening, please. Yeah, yes. Like, where did they belong? What is and I hate using this word blanket statement, but like, what’s like a safe word that we can use? Can you share just your insight on these different words?
Ty Wilson
Absolutely. And that’s a really great question. And I think it’s something a lot of people fear, if they’re not part of the LGBTQ community, they’re like, oh, no, which, you know, which terminology do I use? Is it okay to use this versus this? Am I gonna get in trouble? The thing is, there’s no right or wrong answer. Right. So I’ve used a lot of different terms. And the reason I have I kind of do that intentionally, one, because there is just language that I use, but also because I want people to know that there’s not one right or wrong answer of what verbiage to use, I personally use the word queer a lot. Not everyone likes that word, you know. So some people might stray away from it, they might be scared about it. And that’s fine, you definitely don’t have to use it. As you know, it’s a little bit safer for me to use the word queer. Since I’m part of the LGBTQ community, I don’t have to worry as much about offending someone since it’s something that I can personally identify with. So what I would say is, you know, if you’re ever in a situation where you’re uncertain of what term to use, you can use something like LGBT, LGBTQ LGBTQ plus, I kind of call it the alphabet soup, you can use that terminology. Just because people will know exactly what you’re referring to. And then you’re not also, you know, honing in on just one identity. So if I were to solely say, same sex couples, that’s going to exclude, you know, any part of the queer community that doesn’t identify as a same sex couple, but they are part of the queer community. So this might involve, you know, a heterosexual couple where someone is trans, you know, you might have a trans man, and a, you know, a woman, and it’s a heterosexual couple. They’re not a same sex couple, but they’re part of the queer community or the LGBTQ community. So say, just default to LGBT, LGBTQ until you get more comfortable with some of the other, you know, phrasing or terminology. And the nice thing is, if you’re ever in a situation where you’re working directly with someone and you’re uncertain, it’s okay to ask, if someone were to ever ask me the question of like, hey, what terminology, do you prefer that I use? I love that. I personally don’t care. But if someone were to ask me that, oh, it’d be so amazing because I know that they’re trying to be inclusive. And if I were to be someone who you know, like, the word queer was just not I didn’t identify with it didn’t like it, I would be able to inform them like, Hey, this is one word that I don’t identify with. Let’s stay away from using this. But here are some options that we can use. That’s incredible.
Quianna Marie
And I feel like that is really one of the pain points that a lot of us in the industry have without wanting to offend anybody is right. So I love how you simply said just ask like It’s okay. And that’s for everyone to it doesn’t just have to be, you know, making these assumptions if you are a gay couple or a same sex couple, or if you sense there’s some kind of trans going on, right, we have our census up. And that’s okay. It’s safe even for heterosexual couples to ask. And I think I think there’s beauty in that. And once again, going back to the heart behind these lenses is you’re coming from a place of love, and you’re coming from a place of acceptance, and you just want people around you to feel comfortable. So I’m all for asking the questions.
Ty Wilson
Exactly. And as long as you lead with that intention, the question is totally fine. If you say, hey, I want to make sure that I’m using a piece of language, is there any terminology that you prefer? I use easy, then they know that you’re asking because you’re wanting to be supportive of them, and you want to be conscious of, you know, their feelings, and you know, any trauma that they may be bringing into the conversation with certain words.
Quianna Marie
I love this. And okay, I want to talk a little bit more about some words or phrases that we can clarify. So So for example, and this is why this is getting a download, like a little thought bubble right now, is I actually worked with this super cute gay couple. They were two lesbians, and they were just so adorable. And I remember as soon as I booked them, I went through the questionnaire process, and I made sure to type in like couple number one or a couple number two, or I tried to be really general neutral about it. And what was interesting is one of the brides, she kind of caught me on that and she asked if I could change it, because she is a bride. And she, and she wanted to identify as a bride. And to me, that was obviously no problem. I made that quick fix, and we kind of giggled about it. But I think this is an important conversation to where we can sometimes be too over corrective. And or too. I don’t want to say too open, that’s not the right word. But um, yeah, we can, you know, go in and make these changes and make these assumptions when they’re not always true. Yeah, absolutely.
Ty Wilson
And that’s why and that comes a lot with, you know, when people are like, Oh, well, when is it appropriate to use gendered language? When is it not? Or, you know, should we use gendered language. And I would say, like, if you’re looking at like the most broad scope of things be generic, you don’t have to use gendered language unless it’s appropriate. Right. So some brides do identify, or some, you know, some females do identify as brides and they really want that label. Some do not write some people really want to know that someone’s their husband or their fiance, some people want the terminology partner. And so I would say when it comes to like, your website, so your main pages, you can go ahead and remove gendered language, because even if you’re working, so the reason I say that is, I see a lot of photographers whose you know, in the wedding industry, they talk to their brides. So even if they’re exclusively wanting to work with heterosexual couples, they’ve already excluded half of their couple, because they’re only talking to the bride and not the guy. And so just removing, you know, lame gendered language in that scenario is great, because then you can appeal to both brides and grooms or people who don’t identify as either a bride or groom, they want some other, you know, phrasing to be used for them. When you’re talking a specific scenario, like if you’re, if you’re blogging a specific wedding, or you’re working with a, you know, a specific client, and you know, that they want to be called a bride or a groom, or female or male, you can use that language. And like we talked about earlier, if you don’t know, you can ask. So when it comes to things like contracts, that would, I would say something pretty generic. So I would probably, you know, just kind of keep it as client one, client two. That’s how I have my contract setup. But in your instance, where they asked you, Hey, is it okay, if you go ahead and put Bri, absolutely make that change? Because if they want, like, if if someone wants to identify as you know, a specific label, or they really want that experience, they’ll let you know. And so just starting as inclusive as possible, and then honing in on what they want is a great way to go. And if you know, even before you get to the contract, if you wanted to ask them if they have a preference on you know, contract, that’s fine as well. But I’d probably wait until they told me that they wanted you know, that terminology changed.
Quianna Marie
Yes, this is so helpful, I feel so it’s almost like kind of a broad scope. So when you’re kind of speaking to the masses, or you’re kind of I would imagine, like your website being your front door, right as people are knocking, taking a peek and seeing if they even want to come into the party, okay, like having those more general neutral titles and labels is great. And then I’m even thinking right now, this would be a great way to kind of, like on my intake form, or maybe once they do have the contract rollout. Like, it’s totally okay to ask them, Hey, how would you like to be identified? Or what do you identify as I feel like that is safe and open and for anyone that’s listening, you’re gonna have these instinctual You’re gonna have these things, I wouldn’t say don’t make these assumptions. But sometimes it’s okay to make them. Just be careful, right?
Ty Wilson
Absolutely, yeah. And I’m glad you brought up like intake forms or contact forms, it’s a great way to let people tell you right off the bat, how they want to be referred to. So if you were to go look at my website actually just pulled up my intake form, and I have full name partner’s name, but then I also include personal pronouns section for each person who is part of this intake form, they can go ahead and let me know, you know, how they identify gender wise. And that’s really helpful for me, because even if I were to get an invite from, let’s say, a Blake and a Riley, I have no idea if that is two males, two females one of each. And so letting them choose their pronouns, I know who I’m talking to,
Quianna Marie
that is so helpful. And I love how that kids kind of already set the precedence and create that inclusivity it’s hard to say, because you can be more inclusive right out of the gate. And I love that. So if there’s any questions, it just kind of gets rattled out. And then even just addressing emails, right? I mean, you don’t realize how much these gender labels you know, are in or just daily language. And we don’t even realize that. So to be really welcoming. And honestly add that personalized touch. This is what this is about. Okay. I feel like sometimes, as photographers, we get into this realm of creating images for a portfolio and trying to create the style me pretty images. And at the end of the day, we truly are just documentaries of the most precious memories and milestones of our couple of lives. So there’s nothing wrong with taking that extra step, and truly just making people feel welcome and loved before you even pick up your camera.
Ty Wilson
Absolutely, yeah, and I love what you said about how, you know, as photographers, and as wedding vendors, these people are inviting us into, like, very intimate, you know, moments in their life. And that’s something that’s so important to remember is, they’re inviting us into, you know, some of if not the most intimate moments of their life, and letting them know that they are free to, you know, welcome us in as much or as little as they want is really helpful and being inclusive, and it kind of sets the tone, they know, okay, I am safe letting them in to this part. If they decide that there’s an area of their life that they don’t want to let us into, that’s fine. Because you know, we we are a vendor for them. We’re not, you know, their best friend we’re not it’s important to recognize and remember what our place is. So if there is an answer that they’re not wanting to or a question that they’re not wanting to answer, that’s okay, then we just stay away from using, you know, specific wording that might change, you know, what that dynamic would look like?
Quianna Marie
Yes, this is so helpful, Ty, I’m loving this conversation seriously. So we’ve chatted about a lot of words that we can add to our website we can add to our social media, we can be more inclusive, in your opinion, because I feel like everyone has their different thoughts. What are some what are some buzzwords or some phrases or anything in particular that comes to mind that we should avoid? Or maybe we should kind of filter through and pull out from our website?
Ty Wilson
Yeah. Again, I don’t think there’s a hard and fast rule for this. But I think it’s really important to know, you know, what type of trauma might be packaged with some phrases or some terminology that you use with each community that you might want to be a part of, or inclusive, too. So one thing for the LGBTQ community that can be extremely triggering, just because historically, these types of, you know, groups have not been inclusive is any group around formal religion. So for me, I was raised in a really conservative Christian family. So I’ll talk to Christianity just because it’s what I’m familiar with. But a lot of times I might see, you know, someone’s bio that says, wife, coffee addict follower of Jesus, like, first of all, cringe because it’s very basic, don’t hate me or cancel me. Basic for using those words. But what I will say is, if something’s not like, integral to the identity of your business, you probably don’t need to include it. If your faith is a really big part of who you are, and who you are as a business. That’s fine. You can include it just be conscious that there might be some baggage that comes with that, you know, and I know lots of people who are part of formal religions who are extremely inclusive, extremely active allies, but they also have to go a little bit further out of their way to show as such, so if they talk about you know, how important their faith is to them on their business pages. They also have to go even further and talk about of how inclusive they are because of that faith, how much you know, they, it’s important that they show all representations of love, because they were called to love others, you know, they have to showcase that, you know, those things that can have, you know, some baggage attached to them aren’t exclusionary things in their business, they’re actually part of what makes them inclusive. Oh,
Quianna Marie
I’m loving this, I feel like this is we talked about being like hot and juicy. And this is like, this is the conversation that people either are curious to have or have questions about, or, like, my favorite thing to bring up, especially on this podcast is, is bringing to light things that we may not even realize we’re doing. And I feel like, and I feel like that’s why I really wanted to have this conversation with you Ty is because I feel like so many of us in our hearts are so open and loving and love humans unconditionally. But sometimes we get so close to our business, that we’re not even aware that we’re kind of repelling people, and not even not even to our knowledge. So that’s really helpful. Not even
Ty Wilson
intentionally, I think that’s one of the big things is, I think a lot of people, you know, can be exclusionary, without it being their intent, you know, they want to be inclusive, but there’s small things that they can change to be more inclusive. And it’s really just being aware of what might be turning people away. And so when it comes to like phrases to stay away from, I don’t think it’s a you have to stay away from these but just recognize, hey, this might rub someone the wrong way, or it might make them feel a certain way. And so, if you want to serve that person, you have to go out of your way to show that you are inclusive and that you are a safe space, regardless of that aspect.
Quianna Marie
Right. I love that. What do you prefer photographers? After sharing sneak peeks? Do you hear crickets? Now I’m talking about after a wedding day where you completely blew away the wedding experience. As soon as you were packing up, you knew that the bridesmaids and wedding guests were raving about you and excited to work with you again. But where are those emails? Where are those inquiries? And where are those booking contracts to make sure that you are secured for the next wedding? Well, what if I told you it was as simple as whipping out your phone, capturing a handful of behind the scenes videos and sharing them online? I have a free guide for you. It’s all about quick and easy ways to capture those behind the scenes videos for organic referrals, local followers, and building genuine brand awareness. Okay, this is a fun guide that you absolutely have to download today. So you can look over and study before your next wedding. Because let’s be honest, wouldn’t it be incredible if you can book your next wedding while working your next wedding. run, don’t walk to grab this free guide called Book More wedding, capturing behind the scenes to help boost easy referrals. You can find this link in the show notes are also on my Instagram in my lead page. Hurry, hurry, hurry, you’re going to want this to start booking more dream weddings. So okay, let’s go a little deeper here. I’m like feeling a little risky. Okay. I’m a little saucy over here. So in your humble opinion, I know we feel a very certain way. But let’s say someone listening really wants to I don’t even want to call break into this space, but truly be more inclusive. But maybe they’ve been hesitant to for any type of backlash or, and this is maybe coming from their own family, their own friends. Maybe they in their hearts of hearts want to be more inclusive, but they’re nervous of losing followers, which is just ridiculous, but it’s a thing. Okay, so what? So what advice would you give to someone that really does want to wave the flag and be an ally? But maybe they’re just a little nervous? What kind of push or encouragement would you give to someone that truly wholeheartedly wants to be more inclusive, but it’s just a little nervous of making that first post or really, really making a change?
Ty Wilson
That is a great question. Because it’s something that so many people face, it’s going to be different for each person, right? So I would say very first thing is take an evaluation of like, what are the most important values to you as a human and as a business, if being inclusive is one of those values, then you have to do the hard thing and stand by it. Otherwise, it’s not a value. It’s just lip service. And so if you’re going to say this is something that I value as a business owner, I value as a human, you have to put action behind it. Otherwise you’re you’re not an ally, you’re not being inclusive. You might not be you know, excluding people intentionally, but you’re not going out of your way to include them. So first sit down and figure that out. And then if you decide yes, I do truly want to be inclusive and it’s more important For me to show love to everyone, then to face the backlash that I might get from people who don’t share those same values and opinions, then you can take your next step, that next step might be saying, screw it, I don’t care, this is what I’m going to do, and I’m going to stand by it, some of you might be a little bit more hesitancy, I might lose followers. Yeah, you probably will. I’m not gonna say you won’t, you probably will, not probably you will. But I also recognize that as an opportunity to realign who your audience is, the reality of it is, if you’re losing followers, it’s because those followers were not part of an audience that aligned with your values and your beliefs. And so truly, those aren’t, that’s not an audience that you want, you want an audience that follows, you know, and aligns with your your beliefs, and what you value as a person as a business. I see that all the time, all, you know, post something a little bit spicy, here and there. And actually, I do it all the time on Instagram, especially stories. Anytime I do it, I’ll lose a handful of followers. It used to be a lot more in the beginning of when I started speaking out, but I’ll lose a handful of followers, but I’ll gain a lot more followers. And I’ll also gain people will slide into my DMs and tell me how much they respect and value what I’ve said and that I’m being bold and doing that. So just know that it’s not that you’re losing followers, you’re realigning your audience to align with what your business values are, if you’re still scared and hesitant to take that step. But you’ve already identified like, Hey, these are the values that my business wants to stand behind. I want to be inclusive of the LGBTQ community. What I would say is the best thing is get involved with the queer community, listen to people’s stories, listen to you know, their experiences with whatever community you’re facing, you know, you’re having fear of backlash from is it, you know, people who are conservative Christians, is it people who, you know, value different things politically, like, just listen to their stories and their experiences. And as you do that, I can guarantee, hearing that human aspect behind some of the scenarios that they’ve been in some of the hate that they have faced, it will lay the fire under your rear to say, You know what, I cannot be afraid if they’ve walked through that. And so I’m going to make sure that I get over my fear so that I can represent people who should not have to face the things that they’re facing.
Quianna Marie
Wow, I feel like that just literally lit a fire in comparison. I hate saying that comparison game. But if you can truly compare your nervousness to make a post, versus some of these really just heartfelt emotions and like real life scenarios, like people’s real lives that they’ve had to overcome, or they’ve had to, I mean, just experience is, that’s the comparison game that you should be kind of tuning into, and then taking action on that.
Ty Wilson
Yeah, and that’s not to say that these fears aren’t like extremely legitimate, they are gonna get that and you might feel like, incredibly isolated after deciding to make that decision. And that’s okay. Because you can use that time, and that hurt and that pain that you’re experiencing, to just show how much compassion that you have for others who are experiencing similar things, or to even just be like, Hey, this is something that I didn’t realize that other people might be experiencing. I’m really glad I get this opportunity to walk through a small portion of that, and have it as an opportunity to find people who truly align with what I believe.
Quianna Marie
I love this. So okay, so I have another question. I feel like I have a million for you. But let’s say I love all these like stories, and they’re all kind of like they’re all linking together and it makes perfect sense. Let’s say you’ve already gone through this process, right? So you’ve taken our advice, you’ve reached out to a local friend, and maybe you’re maybe your brother’s best friend is a super handsome gay guy. And you’re like, you know what, this is the closest one I have here in my in my neighborhood, like, I really want you know, and you you’ve gone through the process, you’ve you’ve updated your website, and you feel super confident that you are heart driven behind creating this photo shoot, you are obsessed with the photos, they came out perfectly him and his boyfriend both decided that this was a great idea. And they’re so thankful they even invited you over for dinner and appetizers after your shoot. Like this is just a really great thing going on. Okay, and painting this picture. Let’s say you’re ready to post, okay. What do you post? Do you have to say, Hey, by the way, I’m an inclusive vendor. Can you just genuinely make it about the couple like, like, let’s check cat like, let’s chat about captions here Thai? Like what type of impact can we make with these? Because and this is just totally my humble opinion. Like there’s nothing worse than just being like, Oh, hey, by the way, here are these super cute two gay boys that I love and adore. And you should love them too, because they’re cute, right? Like, let’s go a little bit deeper and kind of create a strategy for posting for anyone maybe thinking, gosh, like I have these, what do I do next?
Ty Wilson
Great question. And I’ll ask the uncomfortable question back. It’s a little bit rhetorical. But do you think about those things when you post a heterosexual couple?
Quianna Marie
Oh, that’s a good one. I would say yes, in the sense that sometimes we all feel stuck, where you want to be really creative. And you don’t want to just post a quote, okay. I would say some of those, like writer’s block, things happen with caption, but I’m so happy you brought that up? Because the initial answer is no,
Ty Wilson
yeah. Because it’s not exclusive to who you’re photographing. Right. So I would say, especially if it’s one of your, you know, first couples, or first, you know, foray into the, you know, photographing or showing that you’re inclusive of LGBTQ community, I would even say, maybe stay away from using a caption that talks about your inclusivity. Because that leans more towards the tokenism side of things, which hopefully, you’ve already told them, hey, I want to photograph you because I want to showcase inclusion. But that doesn’t mean that they need to be the poster child. Anytime you talk about inclusion, right. So you can just talk about love or talk about photographing couples, because that’s what they are, they’re a couple, they’re one of your wedding clients, their, you know, engagement session, whatever, I would say just captioned it like you would a straight couple or a heterosexual couple. Now, as you have more and more clients, and you have more and more LGBTQ plus couples, as part of your brand, or that you’re showcasing Yeah, you can, you can pair it with a queer photo every once in a while here and there. But I would say like, don’t use it as a token, showcase those things on their own, and use other posts to talk about your inclusion, because people will see that you’re being inclusive, not that you’re only talking about inclusion when you have somebody who’s a minority, right. And so, a lot of times this conversation comes up around June, or during pride month, people will post the one same sex couple that they have and talk about how inclusive they are. And that’s really, really tokenizing. I won’t say across all circumstances, that’s bad. But you’re talking about your business being inclusive, put your face behind it, if you aren’t talking about being inclusive, put your face behind it, your name behind it. And when you’re talking about love, put the faces of the people you love behind it, or the you know, the the love that you’re documenting behind it. So it doesn’t have to be you know, oh, I have a same sex couple. I’m going to caption it with same sex things. And even even if even if your phone, you know, if you want to have a post or a comment that is talking about how you’re inclusive of LGBTQ community, you can put that on a heterosexual couples photo as well. It doesn’t have to be only that. So I know that was a long answer. But yeah, if you if you want to stay away from being tokenizing make sure that you’re not only doing it on photos of the community that you’re trying not to tokenize
Quianna Marie
yes, no, this is so helpful. And I feel like that has definitely been a struggle for a lot of photographers and in just just businesses in general, right? Because you want like across the board, any business, you want to be inclusive, you want to share this. And so I think to sum up, really we’re just celebrating love. That’s it if you can just share their love story don’t make it about you make it about them. And their love and their connection. I feel like just like you said with any straight or heterosexual couple like it’s the same thing. Like there’s there’s no different love As love.
Ty Wilson
Exactly. If for like a straight couple, you’re talking about the story behind how they met, like, oh, they met at this event or this bar or whatever. And that just like was fireworks. Awesome. Ask the same sex couple how they met talk about it. For them. It might be that they met at a Drake show. It doesn’t have to be like, Oh, hey, here is gay to say, hey, here’s the love story for this couple. And it doesn’t matter that they’re, you know, same sex couple or a heterosexual couple.
Quianna Marie
I love that. Oh my gosh. And since we’re on a roll, too, I wanted your opinion on this. Because I you know, we want to put our best foot forward with imagery. And so in the past when I first started, I am not going to lie, I would go to Claire’s and I would get to engagement rings like to rocks like wedding rings. And I would I would photograph them together as if it was a wedding. Right? Or I would even be really sneaky. And this is me being really sneaky. But on wedding days, I would photograph two groomsmen together. So you know it would just be like two ties right? Or I would crop in so it looked like there were just two gentlemen together and and so I I would be really resourceful with creating that imagery that looks more inclusive. So what’s your opinion on that? Is that being too sneaky and too crazy or is it being resourceful and what are your thoughts on that tie?
Ty Wilson
Yeah, that that is a juicy question. and you’re gonna get a very, very, very strong answers from a lot of people in the LGBTQ community on it, I tend to think that it’s a little bit tokenizing. It’s, and this is probably not an appropriate comparison to make. And I recognize that before I make it, but it’s similar. It’s kind of like the queer equivalent of using a light skinned model who has a heavy tan, to show racial diversity, that’s kind of frowned upon as it should be right? Like, if you’re going to say, I’m inclusive of black bodies, or Latinx bodies, show those people you know, make sure that if you’re saying I support this culture, you’re not appropriating it, but that you’re using someone who is truly part of it. That’s typically where I tend to lean. So even if you’re hiring, if it means hiring models for a styled shoot, make sure that you’re hiring, you know, to gay models, or to you know, same sex models if you’re wanting them to be first same sex style shoot. That being said, I do know people who have been in situations where they didn’t realize inclusion was not going to be part of the conversation. And so they were disappointed and still, you know, found a way to show images that do show inclusion. I would say though, just maybe try not to brand it as like a same sex couple or being inclusive of same sex couples. If it’s something like details, nobody cares if you photograph a groomsmen and a groom’s shoes together. But if you’re if you’re photographing, you know, a groom and one of his groomsmen and trying to make it appear like they’re a same sex couple, that’s a little bit shady. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t post those pictures, right? There are multiple same sex relationships, even if they’re not romantic, right? So maybe you have a really awesome photo of a groom and his dad, don’t shy away from posting it. Just don’t try to be like, Oh, look at this cute couple. Just be honest to this scenario, and then document this scenario as
Quianna Marie
like, gosh, you’re cracking me up, ya know, cuz I’m such a visual person. So I’m literally seeing that photo, as you’re explaining that. I love that. And I feel like that always, you know, this is perfect. It circles back to being genuine. Being heartfelt, being honest. And being curious. I feel like that is something to you know, if anyone’s listening, that is still unsure or still curious about the verbiage. Google it, ask it just like you mentioned, tie show up to your local communities, your local LGBTQ communities, volunteer, bowl, make a new friend, I mean, do you need to immerse yourself if you’re truly aligned with these values, immerse yourself into the lives and become friends with as many different people as you know, like, as you possibly can know, it’s just, that’s when that’s when change happens. Right? When we meet new people, we ask those questions, and I’m just so thankful for you try.
Ty Wilson
Absolutely. And one thing I will say is like, cuz, you know, it’s come up a few times of the conversation of like, being afraid to say the wrong, wrong thing. And you know, the answer has always been like, ask or, you know, do it anyway. And really, like, don’t be afraid to make mistakes, you’re going to make mistakes, you’re going to get called out on it. That’s fine. Just use it as an opportunity to learn and be humble when you are called out about it. Right? So like, for you, you had a lesbian couple, and she really wanted to be called a bride. Awesome. So what did you do? You said, Absolutely. And you went ahead and changed it to be a bride. Right? So people are going to make mistakes, or they’re going to use terminology that some people don’t identify with or don’t want to identify with. And that’s fine. Just humbly correct it and move on.
Quianna Marie
That is the best advice. And that goes for everything that doesn’t just go for the wedding industry, and specifically wedding planning and being inclusive. That’s just life in general, right. So I feel like, I feel like I know a lot, but I feel like I know, I don’t know as much. And so we’re always, we’re always learning. And I feel like if we can do it from a heart centered background and truly wanting people to feel comfortable in their own skin. I’ll say that a million times over. That’s what this is all about.
Ty Wilson
Yes. And there’s a really great quote, I forget who said it, but it was, it’s something along the lines of, we do the best with what we know until we know better. And that’s all it comes down to you know, you do the best you can with what you do know. And then as soon as you get called out or you learn something new, you can integrate that into doing even better.
Quianna Marie
Amazing, and what advice would you give to someone to let’s say, for example, you do get called out because this is the first thing that comes to my mind is I want to be humble, right? I want to eat my humble pie. I want to be educated and I want you know, to obviously make everyone feel welcome, but we can’t it’s impossible to make every single human feel heard and understood because there is there’s so much verbiage flying around and there’s so many identities. So what what is your advice where let’s just say for example, you do get called out. Is that something? That’s like a tell all? Okay, I have to wipe the board? Do you apologize to that person? And let them know that you’re open to? Right? Because I guess, I guess my my question is it it’s kind of a sticky noodle right now as I’m trying to, like, find the words, but like, sometimes someone’s gonna call you out on something. And that’s just their personal opinion. So how do you not take that and then think that that’s Oh, every single LGBTQ community member feels this way? Does that make sense? Yeah,
Ty Wilson
that’s a great question. And I would say, Just be willing to have the conversation. So I have been called out before I’ve called other people out before, and really, in those moments, it’s taking the time to be like, You know what, I am so sorry, that, you know, I didn’t like I hurt you, or I did something that hurt you, I would love to hear more about your experience with that, and why that’s something that you know why that hurts, and how I can be better. It might be something where it’s, it’s not that you need to make a change, but you just recognize and acknowledge the hurt that it can cause, then from there, like, I would say, you can decide if you need to delete something if you need to edit something, but what I would say is, in the event that you edit, or delete something, because will a lot of times we’ll see this on Instagram, right, maybe somebody will post to their stories, or they’ll post a caption and get called out for what they say they’re in there in the comment section. So if you get called out and you say something along the lines of I’m so sorry, I would love to learn, you know, I’d love to hear more about your experience. Let them have their piece and have that dialogue, decide if it’s something that you need to edit or delete from your caption. But keep that dialogue that happened in the comments there. Right, let people see that you were called out, let people see how you were, you know, humble and gracious and your response and willingness to learn. And let it be known that like, let people see what was said in response to that. Because not only is that going to one help you as you’re learning, right? It’s also going to help other people learn who may be in a similar position, as you are may have said the same thing as you were may have probably thought along the same lines, or would have said the same thing, and it educates them on what an appropriate response might have been. And that also helps people who you’re wanting to be inclusive towards, they see Wow, no, this person, they know that they’re gonna mess up, and they’re willing to take ownership of that and not hide from it or hide that they messed up.
Quianna Marie
That’s just being an adult that’s being a kind spirited human, who’s always willing to learn and to take advice from others. Like, we’re all just humans trying to figure this out. We’re all like, I always say, We’re just souls and spirits in these bodies, right? Like we’re all in this together.
Ty Wilson
One last thing, I was just gonna say, an instance where like, maybe you decided that you do need to delete something or change it. Just feel free to edit the caption. And acknowledge that, but then leave the dialogue below so people can see it.
Quianna Marie
Okay, I have this one more juicy question. And, and I really just want your opinion on this tie, because I feel like this kind of aligns with this conversation so far. So there’s been these trends. I know you’ve seen these before. And it’s been the trend where, let’s say it’s a heterosexual couple getting married, and the guy’s best friend or some. Do some goofball, like, you know, some groom or somebody dresses in the bride’s dress and imitates the bride and pulls the prank on, on the groom. Okay, so everyone has so many different opinions about this. I’ve seen tons of the LGBTQ community, or just, I should say, humans in general, everybody attacking these couples, or I’ve had even some photographers come, I’ve had actual girls come into my DMs and say, Hey, this happened at my wedding. I don’t feel comfortable posting this, because of the backlash that has been swirling around the internet. I personally think it’s hilarious, but I don’t want to offend anybody. So what are your thoughts on that tie? And is this something where some people are projecting their own, like thoughts and opinions on it? It has nothing to do with their wedding day. Like, let’s chat about that, as we kind of close out this conversation. Yeah,
Ty Wilson
great question. For the most part, personally, I think it’s very cringe when I see. Yes, but that doesn’t mean everybody does, right. What I would say is, just recognize that you’re, you know, if you’re the vendor in that situation, document it because it’s, you know, what you’re paid to do, if you know that this is going to happen beforehand, and you’re uncomfortable with it, maybe decide if this is the right client for you. But in the moment, this is something that’s happening, document it but that doesn’t mean just because you’ve documented it, you have to share it right. If you know something is going to be potentially divisive. You don’t have to show it. Same with your couples if you know maybe their groom Oh, that was hilarious. But the bride doesn’t. They don’t have to share it. And that can be a conversation between them. You don’t have to be part of it. But I would say yeah, if you’re if you’re in a scenario where even if you think that that trend is hilarious, but you’re wanting to be super inclusive of the LGBTQ community, and you think that it might be really damaging to the potential for inclusion, just don’t post it. It’s not something that needs to be shared.
Quianna Marie
Yep. I love that. And I’m so happy you mentioned that because we can all have our opinions. We can all right, we all have very different sets of humors. I mean, I you know, I’ve even showed videos like this, you know, to my aunt’s before, who are happy lesbian couple, and some, they think it’s hilarious, right? So it’s, it’s just it all it’s so subjective. And I feel like that’s what’s kind of holding a lot of us back with posting and having these conversations because we just, we just don’t want to be called out. We don’t want to hurt anybody. And we just want to kind of stay in our same safe space or same comfort zone, but that’s not how change happens. That’s not how life rolls right? So oh my gosh, I I’m just so grateful for you. Thank you for answering all these really crazy questions and absolutely open so obviously you’re my BFF you’re my salami and cheese and box wine BFF how How can everyone find you work with you? I know you have resources on this. Your blog is incredible. How can people be your new best friend?
Ty Wilson
Yeah, they can find me on Instagram at Tyrese Wilson. Also, my website is Tyrese wilson.com. And yeah, like you said, I have some resources on there. One of them being a glossary or index of vocabulary for LGBTQ terminology, so that if you’re not familiar with certain phrases or terminology, feel free to download it. But also like if you need to get a hold of me ask any questions you’re afraid to ask. Don’t feel afraid to slide into my DMs shoot me an email, totally happy to answer your questions people have and you know all in support of building more inclusive businesses.
Quianna Marie
You are so incredible. I love your spirit. I love your heart. And I love that you are truly not just an ally but a pure advocate for the LGBTQ community. And it’s just I’m just so happy. You’re my friend. I love you.
Ty Wilson
Thanks for having me. It’s really an honor.
Quianna Marie
Thank you, Ty. That’s a wrap on another episode of Quianna Marie weekly. Thank you so much for your listenership and support. You can find the resources and show notes for this episode and more at quiannamarie.com/podcast. I’d be honored if you’d show your support by leaving a review and rating on your favorite podcast app. Until next time, keep on dancing.
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